What's going on at QNX?

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Pete Eddy

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Pete Eddy » Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:09 pm

Phab is included and it says it's the same rev as the prior releases. I
would expect most of the effort was put into the eclipse tools. Is there a
replacement for Phab in the IDE, or is it going to be maintained and
upgraded once dust settles and RTP matures?
(I mean no insult by saying once RTP matures, I expect it to take time for
them to get feed back on what customers really want out of a new product. I
wouldn't expect it to be all it was intended to be for a couple years.)

Pete Eddy


"Chris McKillop" <cdm@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:ae85t2$khc$1@nntp.qnx.com...
"Bill Caroselli \(Q-TPS\)" <QTPS@earthlink.net> wrote:
I just downloaded, but have not yet installed, the 6.2 NC package.

From reading the documentation on the CD image, only the SE & PE
versions
include PhAB, not the NC version.

So are we to understand that there are software products that were free
with
6.1a that we now have to buy?


No, PhAB is included in 6.2 NC. It is the IDE (Eclipse based) that is
not.

chris

--
Chris McKillop <cdm@qnx.com> "The faster I go, the behinder I get."
Software Engineer, QSSL -- Lewis Carroll --
http://qnx.wox.org/

David Gibbs

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by David Gibbs » Fri Jun 14, 2002 3:02 pm

Pete Eddy <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote:
Phab is included and it says it's the same rev as the prior releases. I
would expect most of the effort was put into the eclipse tools. Is there a
replacement for Phab in the IDE, or is it going to be maintained and
upgraded once dust settles and RTP matures?
I don't think Phab will be replaced in the IDE -- it will be run
in parallel. (That, at least, seems to be the current implementation,
there is a Phab for Windows that can be run for Windows development
of Photon applications already. Not sure what exists on the Solaris
side as I don't have the pleasure of a Solaris box on my desk.)

-David
--
QNX Training Services
http://www.qnx.com/support/training/
Please followup in this newsgroup if you have further questions.

Alec Saunders

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Alec Saunders » Sun Jun 16, 2002 8:28 pm

<camz@passageway.com> wrote in message news:aebt85$e96$1@inn.qnx.com...
Igor Kovalenko <Igor.Kovalenko@motorola.com> wrote:
You guys must think that by adding more and more nonsense to this thread
you
make it more valuable and easy to follow...

I agree. I'm still waiting for a better explanation from Alec as to how
the
use of the Momentics name removes confusion from the QNX product line.
I'm sorry about the delay Camz. It's been an interesting week for me, the
upshot of which is that I am no longer a QSSL employee. I will try to
answer your question, however.

What QSSL has now is basically three brands -- Momentics (developer suites),
Neutrino (the OS), and QNX (the company). From a business perspective it
was done because:

1. Brand building and maintenance is expensive and QSSL had too many brands.
So, Photon, Phindows and QNET, for example, are now simply features of the
OS where before we referred to them as separate products, and separate
brands.
2. RTP was a confusing brand -- the word platform, in particular being used
in a fashion that is outside the normal usage
3. We wanted to be able to talk about all the great tools we built as well
as the great OS, so it was desirable to separate the two from a messaging
perspective. We wanted to be able to say that the tools were powerful, easy
to use, comprehensive, and standards based. The core attributes of the OS
are that it's reliable, scalable, and standarsd based.
4. We wanted the embedded world to KNOW that we had a tools offering,
because it's been a criticism for so long. Messaging that is made much
simpler and clearer by naming it differently from the OS product.
5. By bundling together things like BSP's, processor support, DDK's, and
tools for Windows, Solaris and RTP into the same package, we're delivering a
much larger value to the customer than before and also, we think, a much
larger value than some of our competitors do.

Hope that helps. I won't be hanging out on this message board much longer
gang, but it's been a slice.

Alec.

Kevin Stallard

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Kevin Stallard » Sun Jun 16, 2002 10:50 pm

What the heck is going on? Alec.. you can't go!

Kevin
"Alec Saunders" <alecs@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:aeirir$ghf$1@inn.qnx.com...
camz@passageway.com> wrote in message news:aebt85$e96$1@inn.qnx.com...
Igor Kovalenko <Igor.Kovalenko@motorola.com> wrote:
You guys must think that by adding more and more nonsense to this
thread
you
make it more valuable and easy to follow...

I agree. I'm still waiting for a better explanation from Alec as to how
the
use of the Momentics name removes confusion from the QNX product line.

I'm sorry about the delay Camz. It's been an interesting week for me, the
upshot of which is that I am no longer a QSSL employee. I will try to
answer your question, however.

What QSSL has now is basically three brands -- Momentics (developer
suites),
Neutrino (the OS), and QNX (the company). From a business perspective it
was done because:

1. Brand building and maintenance is expensive and QSSL had too many
brands.
So, Photon, Phindows and QNET, for example, are now simply features of the
OS where before we referred to them as separate products, and separate
brands.
2. RTP was a confusing brand -- the word platform, in particular being
used
in a fashion that is outside the normal usage
3. We wanted to be able to talk about all the great tools we built as well
as the great OS, so it was desirable to separate the two from a messaging
perspective. We wanted to be able to say that the tools were powerful,
easy
to use, comprehensive, and standards based. The core attributes of the OS
are that it's reliable, scalable, and standarsd based.
4. We wanted the embedded world to KNOW that we had a tools offering,
because it's been a criticism for so long. Messaging that is made much
simpler and clearer by naming it differently from the OS product.
5. By bundling together things like BSP's, processor support, DDK's, and
tools for Windows, Solaris and RTP into the same package, we're delivering
a
much larger value to the customer than before and also, we think, a much
larger value than some of our competitors do.

Hope that helps. I won't be hanging out on this message board much longer
gang, but it's been a slice.

Alec.

Jutta Steinhoff

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Jutta Steinhoff » Mon Jun 17, 2002 12:03 pm

Alec,

that's bad news in the beginning of the week :-((

Is there anything the QNX community can do to change your mind ??
What about a list with signs ?? Do you would return?

If there should be any way back for you, please go on with professional
marketing... it's needed! If you don't see a possibilty to stay with
QNX, thanks for all you did for the QNX community and all the best for
your future,

Jutta



Kevin Stallard wrote:
What the heck is going on? Alec.. you can't go!

Kevin
"Alec Saunders" <alecs@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:aeirir$ghf$1@inn.qnx.com...

camz@passageway.com> wrote in message news:aebt85$e96$1@inn.qnx.com...
Igor Kovalenko <Igor.Kovalenko@motorola.com> wrote:
You guys must think that by adding more and more nonsense to this
thread you
make it more valuable and easy to follow...

I agree. I'm still waiting for a better explanation from Alec as to how
the use of the Momentics name removes confusion from the QNX product line.

I'm sorry about the delay Camz. It's been an interesting week for me, the
upshot of which is that I am no longer a QSSL employee. I will try to
answer your question, however.

What QSSL has now is basically three brands -- Momentics (developer
suites),
Neutrino (the OS), and QNX (the company). From a business perspective it
was done because:

1. Brand building and maintenance is expensive and QSSL had too many
brands.
So, Photon, Phindows and QNET, for example, are now simply features of the
OS where before we referred to them as separate products, and separate
brands.
2. RTP was a confusing brand -- the word platform, in particular being
used in a fashion that is outside the normal usage
3. We wanted to be able to talk about all the great tools we built as well
as the great OS, so it was desirable to separate the two from a messaging
perspective. We wanted to be able to say that the tools were powerful,
easy
to use, comprehensive, and standards based. The core attributes of the OS
are that it's reliable, scalable, and standarsd based.
4. We wanted the embedded world to KNOW that we had a tools offering,
because it's been a criticism for so long. Messaging that is made much
simpler and clearer by naming it differently from the OS product.
5. By bundling together things like BSP's, processor support, DDK's, and
tools for Windows, Solaris and RTP into the same package, we're delivering
a much larger value to the customer than before and also, we think, a much
larger value than some of our competitors do.

Hope that helps. I won't be hanging out on this message board much longer
gang, but it's been a slice.

Alec.

Alec Saunders

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Alec Saunders » Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:21 pm

Thanks for the kind words, Jutta and Kevin. There's no way to reverse the
decision that I know of. So, it's onwards and upwards to the next
adventure. Thanks for all your patience and support over the last 12
months.

Over and out!

Alec.

Mario Charest

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Mario Charest » Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:52 pm

I'm sorry about the delay Camz. It's been an interesting week for me, the
upshot of which is that I am no longer a QSSL employee.
Ouch

Guest

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Guest » Mon Jun 17, 2002 4:04 pm

Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:
I'm sorry about the delay Camz. It's been an interesting week for me, the
upshot of which is that I am no longer a QSSL employee.
You will be missed Alec. You have helped make QSSL make some tremendous
advancements in terms of how they relate to and interact with their customers
from a marketing perspective. The huge internal re-organization that was
culminated with the release of 6.2 Momentics was a huge undertaking.

I'd like to say that you did a great job, and I'd like thank you for that,
as well as tolerating the sometimes heated discussions here. Your openness
and frankness on some of the issues raised here was refreshing. It's nice
to feel that we are being listened to and not just ingnored. You acheived
that.

Your successor has some pretty huge shoes to fill!

Cheers,
Camz

Alec Saunders

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Alec Saunders » Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:11 pm

Wow! Thank you - that means a lot. And rest assured, it was never a
problem to "tolerate" heated discussions. I might have disagreed with what
was being said sometimes, but I would rather it was said publicly, to give
us a chance to address the issues, than muttered behind closed doors.

And now, gang, I'm going to unplug from this newsgroup. I've enjoyed you
all, and best wishes in the future.

Alec.

Armin Steinhoff

Re: What is Momentics? (formerly "What's going on at QNX")

Post by Armin Steinhoff » Wed Jun 19, 2002 3:31 pm

Alec Saunders wrote:
Wow! Thank you - that means a lot. And rest assured, it was never a
problem to "tolerate" heated discussions. I might have disagreed with what
was being said sometimes, but I would rather it was said publicly, to give
us a chance to address the issues, than muttered behind closed doors.
This parochial stale air behind muttered doors has the potential to kill
QSSL !!

It's a DISASTER !

Armin


And now, gang, I'm going to unplug from this newsgroup. I've enjoyed you
all, and best wishes in the future.

Alec.

Alex Cellarius

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Alex Cellarius » Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:39 am

On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 01:43:42 -0700, Miguel Simon <simon@ou.edu> wrote:
Hi...
...
"Because now" -I answer- "if I want to convince you, a decision maker,
that it makes sense to buy 'Momentics PE or SE' to work on a PowerPC
board, I have to step back and utilize rtp6.1 to demonstrate my point."
You should be able to get any version you want on an evaluation basis.
Please contact your sales rep.

(This is the same way it was done with QNX4, btw)

Jutta Steinhoff

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Jutta Steinhoff » Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:34 am

Miguel,

are you expecting that all companies are distributing a NC version
of their fully commercial products, software as well as hardware ??

If so, nobody would have been able to decide for QNX4 e.g. ;-)

Everyone who is seriously interested in a commercial product for
education or for industry is talking with the sales guys and there
are different possibilities to clearify questions. Often are offered
demonstrations or a timely limited evaluation version or anything
else. Also, most companies have special University conditions.

E.g. for QNX4 you could always sign for an eval. version for 30 days
or longer and I can't imagine that there is not a similar way for
anyone who is seriously interested to use QNX6.2 for PPC.

Do you think it's the wrong idea from QSSL that pot. customers have
to contact them when they want to try non x86 platforms ???

May be you are not aware how much illegal soft- and hardware (!)
copies are used in industry... and NA is no exception !!!

Cheers,
Jutta


Miguel Simon wrote:
Hi...

camz@passageway.com wrote:

Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:


It doesn't look like it.

NC looks like a stripped-down version of the old RTP

You are right. This is obviously a step back, I would dare to say...

"But how would you dare to say that?" -I hear my boss, a decision maker,
ask.

"Because now" -I answer- "if I want to convince you, a decision maker,
that it makes sense to buy 'Momentics PE or SE' to work on a PowerPC
board, I have to step back and utilize rtp6.1 to demonstrate my point."

"So, to have me, a decision maker, buy the latest rtp6.2-PE based on a
demonstration for a ppc platform, you, the developer, have to step back
and utilize rtp6.1?" - says my boss, the decision maker. For some reason
the decision maker repeated my last comment. Why? Things did not look
too good...

...gulp...

Regardless, I have to be honest, and regretfully I say:

"Yes, I am sorry, but I, the developer, have no other choice. You see,
rtp6.2-NC has no development for the ppc, just as it was for rtp6.0 two
years ago."

A moment of silence -which to me, the developer, stretched an eternity.

"Yup, as far as I, the decision maker, am concerned, this is a step back
to two years ago. And what is 'Momentics' any way?"

I shrug. I know that he is not expecting an answer...I see the decision
maker go away, nodding, and I hear him say...

"I'll be darn if I authorize to buy a product for $$$$.$$ dollars with
no solid demonstration, again. Being there, and have been bitten by that".

At this point I, the developer, understood that lamentably there was no
new development environment for me... And on top of that rtp6.1A and
rtp6.2-NC have a broken speedo and pcnet driver. Oh well, thank goodness
QNX Neutrino still is better than any other choice out there.

And I, the developer, with pensive vision into the future, somehow
walked away still happy after all these years with QNX.

cheers...

Miguel.

Miguel Simon

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Miguel Simon » Thu Jul 04, 2002 8:43 am

Hi...

camz@passageway.com wrote:
Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:


It doesn't look like it.

NC looks like a stripped-down version of the old RTP
You are right. This is obviously a step back, I would dare to say...

"But how would you dare to say that?" -I hear my boss, a decision maker,
ask.

"Because now" -I answer- "if I want to convince you, a decision maker,
that it makes sense to buy 'Momentics PE or SE' to work on a PowerPC
board, I have to step back and utilize rtp6.1 to demonstrate my point."

"So, to have me, a decision maker, buy the latest rtp6.2-PE based on a
demonstration for a ppc platform, you, the developer, have to step back
and utilize rtp6.1?" - says my boss, the decision maker. For some reason
the decision maker repeated my last comment. Why? Things did not look
too good...

....gulp...

Regardless, I have to be honest, and regretfully I say:

"Yes, I am sorry, but I, the developer, have no other choice. You see,
rtp6.2-NC has no development for the ppc, just as it was for rtp6.0 two
years ago."

A moment of silence -which to me, the developer, stretched an eternity.

"Yup, as far as I, the decision maker, am concerned, this is a step back
to two years ago. And what is 'Momentics' any way?"

I shrug. I know that he is not expecting an answer...I see the decision
maker go away, nodding, and I hear him say...

"I'll be darn if I authorize to buy a product for $$$$.$$ dollars with
no solid demonstration, again. Being there, and have been bitten by that".

At this point I, the developer, understood that lamentably there was no
new development environment for me... And on top of that rtp6.1A and
rtp6.2-NC have a broken speedo and pcnet driver. Oh well, thank goodness
QNX Neutrino still is better than any other choice out there.

And I, the developer, with pensive vision into the future, somehow
walked away still happy after all these years with QNX.

cheers...

Miguel.

Mario Charest

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Mario Charest » Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:59 pm

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message news:3D240ABE.20802@ou.edu...
Hi...

camz@passageway.com wrote:

Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:


It doesn't look like it.

NC looks like a stripped-down version of the old RTP


You are right. This is obviously a step back, I would dare to say...

"But how would you dare to say that?" -I hear my boss, a decision maker,
ask.
[cut]

I support QSS move here. Apparently there was LOTS of people
using the 6.1 NC version for commercial use that didn't pay for it.

By removing most of the stuff that professional people need
in the NC version they tried to insure people would have to
buy the SE or PE version. PowerPC developer definitely fits
the professional profile.

NC is in my view targeted at the casual user, to get a first look.
Then if they get serious, they can contact sales to get a step
further to obtain a full evaluation kit.

- Mario

Mario Charest

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Mario Charest » Thu Jul 04, 2002 4:38 pm

"Miguel Simon" <simon@ou.edu> wrote in message
news:3D248DD9.3020401@ou.edu...
Hi Mario...


[cut]

I support QSS move here. Apparently there was LOTS of people
using the 6.1 NC version for commercial use that didn't pay for it.


I do not disagree with you wholly, but I doubt that there are illegal
commercial products out there as a result of rtp6.1. Don't you think?
I know more people that are using the free version to develop a commercial
product and then people that have bought it. They all plan on buying it but
are waiting until product if finish. That can take a long time and is
definitely
lost of revenu for QSS.
Can you name a product that is making money out there which is based on
an illegal use of the rtp6.1 version of QNX?
I can't even name a product running rtp 6.1 ;-) People don't put
"QNX 6.1 inside" sticker on their machine.
I would tend to believe that companies have developers seat regardless.

RTP6.1 was a debugging run for QSSL, perhaps, and it was also a most
successful PR move -in my own opinion. More power to QSSL.



By removing most of the stuff that professional people need
in the NC version they tried to insure people would have to
buy the SE or PE version. PowerPC developer definitely fits
the professional profile.


Our robotics research work at the university uses rtp6.1 because of
obvious reasons. The utilization of rtp6.1 for such work does and
produces only two things: PR for QNX and some phd's.

Because of some of the work mentioned above, R&D companies that again,
produce no commercial products -but generate run time licenses-, go
ahead and buy developers seat regardless. It is a win-win deal, I think,
and the basis for my previous dissertation.

bests...

Miguel.



NC is in my view targeted at the casual user, to get a first look.
Then if they get serious, they can contact sales to get a step
further to obtain a full evaluation kit.

- Mario








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