What's going on at QNX?

bridged with qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy
Pete Eddy

What's going on at QNX?

Post by Pete Eddy » Thu Jun 06, 2002 12:49 pm

I mean it doesn't seem like we are getting a lot of info on the happening
with our favorite Operating System. We get a few gems from qnxZone every
now and again, but wouldn't it be good marketing to keep the people talking
about QNX by giving out more info on what's happening rather than requiring
them to dig for it?

Just Saying...

Pete Eddy

Debbie Kane

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Debbie Kane » Thu Jun 06, 2002 1:23 pm

Sorry, we've been busy launching a new product :-)

New QNX® Momentics® Development Suite Simplifies Embedded Programming

EMBEDDED SYSTEMS CONFERENCE, Chicago, June 4, 2002 - Embedded developers can
now eliminate time-consuming programming tasks and tackle multi-language,
multi-processor projects with ease, thanks to the new QNX® Momentics®
development suite, released today by QNX Software Systems. Designed for
creating applications that take full advantage of the highly reliable QNX®
Neutrino® RTOS, QNX Momentics offers a comprehensive, yet tightly integrated
toolset for embedded development - everything from sophisticated wizards for
getting a project started to performance analysis tools for optimizing the
final product.
The launch of the QNX Momentics development suite follows a rigorous beta
program involving more than 130 customers and partners, including
participation from Cisco, Delphi, Motorola, Nokia, and NASA.

More: http://www.qnx.com/news/pr/jun04_02_momentics.html

"Pete Eddy" <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:adnke6$dc$1@inn.qnx.com...
I mean it doesn't seem like we are getting a lot of info on the happening
with our favorite Operating System. We get a few gems from qnxZone every
now and again, but wouldn't it be good marketing to keep the people
talking
about QNX by giving out more info on what's happening rather than
requiring
them to dig for it?

Just Saying...

Pete Eddy


Pete Eddy

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Pete Eddy » Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:51 pm

The IDE sounds cool, but I have a Question...
I downloaded the 6.2NC edition, and am having the Standard Edition sent to
me by my sales rep. Neither of these have any of the IDE stuff, but they
still refer to it as "Momentics." What make this "Momentics" without the
IDE? Should only the Professional edition be called Momentics, and the rest
is just QNX RTP?

Pete Eddy

"Debbie Kane" <debbie@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:adnn14$2e4$1@inn.qnx.com...
Sorry, we've been busy launching a new product :-)

New QNX® Momentics® Development Suite Simplifies Embedded Programming

EMBEDDED SYSTEMS CONFERENCE, Chicago, June 4, 2002 - Embedded developers
can
now eliminate time-consuming programming tasks and tackle multi-language,
multi-processor projects with ease, thanks to the new QNX® Momentics®
development suite, released today by QNX Software Systems. Designed for
creating applications that take full advantage of the highly reliable QNX®
Neutrino® RTOS, QNX Momentics offers a comprehensive, yet tightly
integrated
toolset for embedded development - everything from sophisticated wizards
for
getting a project started to performance analysis tools for optimizing the
final product.
The launch of the QNX Momentics development suite follows a rigorous beta
program involving more than 130 customers and partners, including
participation from Cisco, Delphi, Motorola, Nokia, and NASA.

More: http://www.qnx.com/news/pr/jun04_02_momentics.html

"Pete Eddy" <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:adnke6$dc$1@inn.qnx.com...
I mean it doesn't seem like we are getting a lot of info on the
happening
with our favorite Operating System. We get a few gems from qnxZone
every
now and again, but wouldn't it be good marketing to keep the people
talking
about QNX by giving out more info on what's happening rather than
requiring
them to dig for it?

Just Saying...

Pete Eddy




Igor Kovalenko

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Igor Kovalenko » Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:14 pm

Hahahahaha... I was waiting for someone to ask because if I asked myself
they'd only shrug ... ah, that's igor freaking over names again ;)

This will go down as silliest thing about the release. Not only you've
managed to pick a non-descriptive and generally not suggesting anything kind
of name, you also managed to stay unclear even about what you're naming...
Congratulations QNX, so far the biggest association this name brings up is
the 'Memento' movie. Quite ironical and amusing if you consider the story -
that dude could not remember anything beyond last 15min, just like you guys
can't seem to remember any of you past mistakes and keep repeating them. Set
yourself up with tatoos and snapshot pictures, might help with next release.

-- igor

"Pete Eddy" <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:ae2nk0$ctj$1@inn.qnx.com...
The IDE sounds cool, but I have a Question...
I downloaded the 6.2NC edition, and am having the Standard Edition sent to
me by my sales rep. Neither of these have any of the IDE stuff, but they
still refer to it as "Momentics." What make this "Momentics" without the
IDE? Should only the Professional edition be called Momentics, and the
rest
is just QNX RTP?

Pete Eddy

"Debbie Kane" <debbie@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:adnn14$2e4$1@inn.qnx.com...
Sorry, we've been busy launching a new product :-)

New QNX® Momentics® Development Suite Simplifies Embedded Programming

EMBEDDED SYSTEMS CONFERENCE, Chicago, June 4, 2002 - Embedded developers
can
now eliminate time-consuming programming tasks and tackle
multi-language,
multi-processor projects with ease, thanks to the new QNX® Momentics®
development suite, released today by QNX Software Systems. Designed for
creating applications that take full advantage of the highly reliable
QNX®
Neutrino® RTOS, QNX Momentics offers a comprehensive, yet tightly
integrated
toolset for embedded development - everything from sophisticated wizards
for
getting a project started to performance analysis tools for optimizing
the
final product.
The launch of the QNX Momentics development suite follows a rigorous
beta
program involving more than 130 customers and partners, including
participation from Cisco, Delphi, Motorola, Nokia, and NASA.

More: http://www.qnx.com/news/pr/jun04_02_momentics.html

"Pete Eddy" <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:adnke6$dc$1@inn.qnx.com...
I mean it doesn't seem like we are getting a lot of info on the
happening
with our favorite Operating System. We get a few gems from qnxZone
every
now and again, but wouldn't it be good marketing to keep the people
talking
about QNX by giving out more info on what's happening rather than
requiring
them to dig for it?

Just Saying...

Pete Eddy






Alec Saunders

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Alec Saunders » Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:23 pm

Hi Pete --

QNX Momentics is more than just an IDE. Momentics is designed to be a
complete development environment for embedded developers. So, for instance,
it also includes cross-hosted tools for Solaris and Windows targeting x86,
SH4, ARM, StrongArm, xScale, and PowerPC. It includes BSP's for a variety
of different boards. It includes all the DDK's as well. The SE version is
the same as PE, except that it has no IDE, and a limited set of BSP's.
Similarly, the NC version has some of these tools -- it can target both x86
and ARM, and has an image available for the Compaq iPAQ.

It's different from the old RTP.

Hope that helps.

Alec.
-----
Alec Saunders
VP Marketing, QNX Software

Pete Eddy

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Pete Eddy » Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:01 pm

Ok I get that Momentics is the whole development environment including the
DDK and the BSPs, but the tools that come with the NC and the SE appear to
be the same as the tools in 6.1. You just get more examples of how to use
QNX? And a few updates to some of the applications? It's just not clear
what warrants the change in nomenclature other than the IDE.
I have no problem with 6.2 it installed on a system that used to lockup on
installation unless I disable USB support, and played games with the
enumeration files. I just wanted some clarification on the different naming
and licensing.

Pete Eddy

"Alec Saunders" <alecs@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:ae2q60$gng$1@nntp.qnx.com...
Hi Pete --

QNX Momentics is more than just an IDE. Momentics is designed to be a
complete development environment for embedded developers. So, for
instance,
it also includes cross-hosted tools for Solaris and Windows targeting x86,
SH4, ARM, StrongArm, xScale, and PowerPC. It includes BSP's for a variety
of different boards. It includes all the DDK's as well. The SE version
is
the same as PE, except that it has no IDE, and a limited set of BSP's.
Similarly, the NC version has some of these tools -- it can target both
x86
and ARM, and has an image available for the Compaq iPAQ.

It's different from the old RTP.

Hope that helps.

Alec.
-----
Alec Saunders
VP Marketing, QNX Software


Frank Liu

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Frank Liu » Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:00 pm

Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:
Hi Pete --

QNX Momentics is more than just an IDE. Momentics is designed to be a
does "more than" mean if I install Momentics, I will get an IDE AND more?

Ian Cannon

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Ian Cannon » Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:55 pm

Previously, Igor Kovalenko wrote in qdn.public.qnxrtp.advocacy:
Hahahahaha... I was waiting for someone to ask because if I asked myself
they'd only shrug ... ah, that's igor freaking over names again ;)

No, you are not. I too find this whole naming stuff absurd. Perhaps I'm obsessive!!!
This will go down as silliest thing about the release. Not only you've
managed to pick a non-descriptive and generally not suggesting anything kind
of name, you also managed to stay unclear even about what you're naming...
Congratulations QNX, so far the biggest association this name brings up is
the 'Memento' movie. Quite ironical and amusing if you consider the story -
that dude could not remember anything beyond last 15min, just like you guys
can't seem to remember any of you past mistakes and keep repeating them. Set
yourself up with tatoos and snapshot pictures, might help with next release.

-- igor

"Pete Eddy" <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:ae2nk0$ctj$1@inn.qnx.com...
The IDE sounds cool, but I have a Question...
I downloaded the 6.2NC edition, and am having the Standard Edition sent to
me by my sales rep. Neither of these have any of the IDE stuff, but they
still refer to it as "Momentics." What make this "Momentics" without the
IDE? Should only the Professional edition be called Momentics, and the
rest
is just QNX RTP?

Pete Eddy

"Debbie Kane" <debbie@qnx.com> wrote in message
news:adnn14$2e4$1@inn.qnx.com...
Sorry, we've been busy launching a new product :-)

New QNX® Momentics® Development Suite Simplifies Embedded Programming

EMBEDDED SYSTEMS CONFERENCE, Chicago, June 4, 2002 - Embedded developers
can
now eliminate time-consuming programming tasks and tackle
multi-language,
multi-processor projects with ease, thanks to the new QNX® Momentics®
development suite, released today by QNX Software Systems. Designed for
creating applications that take full advantage of the highly reliable
QNX®
Neutrino® RTOS, QNX Momentics offers a comprehensive, yet tightly
integrated
toolset for embedded development - everything from sophisticated wizards
for
getting a project started to performance analysis tools for optimizing
the
final product.
The launch of the QNX Momentics development suite follows a rigorous
beta
program involving more than 130 customers and partners, including
participation from Cisco, Delphi, Motorola, Nokia, and NASA.

More: http://www.qnx.com/news/pr/jun04_02_momentics.html

"Pete Eddy" <peter.w.eddy@lmco.com> wrote in message
news:adnke6$dc$1@inn.qnx.com...
I mean it doesn't seem like we are getting a lot of info on the
happening
with our favorite Operating System. We get a few gems from qnxZone
every
now and again, but wouldn't it be good marketing to keep the people
talking
about QNX by giving out more info on what's happening rather than
requiring
them to dig for it?

Just Saying...

Pete Eddy









Pete Eddy

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Pete Eddy » Tue Jun 11, 2002 12:30 pm

No not exactly,
The IDE is a part of the Momentics package that you only get if you get
the Professional Version.
I'm not exactly clear on what else Momentics is, but it includes the DDKs
and the Board Support Packages. Regardless, 6.2 has updated drivers, new
function calls in the libraries, and they now have a 3rd party disk that has
everything nice and packaged for you. (As a separate download.) The third
party disk needs to have a couple links fixed here and there to make
everything work, but it beats searching for source code and trying to
recompile or port it yourself.
I was playing with the Gimp last night for first time, because it was
already setup for me. Making sure there are applications easily accessable
for your OS is, in my mind, just as important as the updates to the OS it's
self.

Pete Eddy


"Frank Liu" <liug@mama.indstate.edu> wrote in message
news:ae3422$l62$2@inn.qnx.com...
Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:

Hi Pete --

QNX Momentics is more than just an IDE. Momentics is designed to be a

does "more than" mean if I install Momentics, I will get an IDE AND more?

Rennie Allen

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Rennie Allen » Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:11 pm

camz@passageway.com wrote:
that (even if they weren't using what was taken away, it's the principle).
What principle is that ? My neighbor occasionally gives me some oranges
off of his tree. I greatly appreciate his generosity, but I don't
expect to receive oranges every time his tree bears (that would be
downright rude).

Now if QSSL had explicitly said that the multiplatform support would
remain free for all future versions of QNX then there might be a case to
be made.

Rennie

Guest

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Guest » Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:18 pm

Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:
QNX Momentics is more than just an IDE.
Yeah, that's the problem. The name "Momentics" has no meaning, and relates
to no product. It is closer to the name of a product line than any product
itself. The *REAL* product names are NC, SE, and PE, and those are just
model numbers.

The correct answer to "What is Momentics" is... "Momentics is the name for
*ALL* of the QSSL provided developmentenvironments, commercial and non-
commercial, it is not a single specific thing."
Momentics is designed to be a complete development environment for embedded
developers.
That isn't quite right Alec, since the NC version does not contain all the
tools required for embedded development, nor is Momentics a single thing as
that sentence implies.
So, for instance, it also includes cross-hosted tools for Solaris and Windows targeting x86,
SH4, ARM, StrongArm, xScale, and PowerPC.
Wrong again. The SE and PE models of Momentics include these, the NC does not,
so that makes it incorrect to make a blanket statement that "Momentics" itself
includes them as well.

The SE version is the same as PE, except that it has no IDE, and a limited
i set of BSP's.
Why does the IDE identify itself as "Momentics" when you start it then? Does
that mean that the IDE is *ALSO* called Momentics? If it is, then why is the
command to start it "eclipse"?

I also don't understand why paying customers that only opt for SE get penalized
by not recieving all the examples? I can understand PE having additional
tools for the purpose of allowing customer to create a new BSP as opposed to
a customer with SE only being able to use an existing BSP, but the additional
examples just baffles me. That sounds more like a penalty for the "cheap"
customers.
Similarly, the NC version has some of these tools -- it can target both x86
and ARM, and has an image available for the Compaq iPAQ.
So, they are all Momentics, and they are all different, so tell me, again
what is Momentics? This is still confusing and I *know* what Momentics is,
but it took a lot of questions to get there. That is not what I call a
success in terms of marketing, aren't product names supposed to help identify
a product, rather can obfuscate what the product actually is?
It's different from the old RTP.
It doesn't look like it.

NC looks like a stripped-down version of the old RTP
SE looks like the old RTP
PE looks like the old RTP with a new product thrown in called an IDE
Hope that helps.
Not at all. As igor points out, this is just another incarnation of the
confusion around names that occured with "RTP" when the QDN website listed
it in the list of QNX OSs... "QNX4, QNX Neutrino, and QNX RTP". That was
a mess, this isn't quite the same, but its a mess none-the-less.

Cheers,
Camz.

Igor Kovalenko

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Igor Kovalenko » Tue Jun 11, 2002 9:55 pm

Well said camz...

The name Momentics as of now does not really stand for anything except new
marketing campaign. And yes, NC is just stripped down version of 6.1, plus
bug fixes. The list of parts stripped down also looks like somebody was
playing darts to pick them... I can understand exclusion of mkifs and
related tools. But why SNMP, bootpd and other daemons, which originate from
open source anyway? Then why fs-nfs2 is in NC but fs-nfs3 is only in SE?
They are just different versions of NFS protocol. Beats me...

There is another difference between SE and PE, aside from the IDE. It that
full C++ support is only in PE. I am not sure what level of C++ support is
present in SE, never tried.

-- igor

<camz@passageway.com> wrote in message news:ae5pel$nv5$1@inn.qnx.com...
Alec Saunders <alecs@qnx.com> wrote:
QNX Momentics is more than just an IDE.

Yeah, that's the problem. The name "Momentics" has no meaning, and
relates
to no product. It is closer to the name of a product line than any
product
itself. The *REAL* product names are NC, SE, and PE, and those are just
model numbers.

The correct answer to "What is Momentics" is... "Momentics is the name for
*ALL* of the QSSL provided developmentenvironments, commercial and non-
commercial, it is not a single specific thing."

Momentics is designed to be a complete development environment for
embedded
developers.

That isn't quite right Alec, since the NC version does not contain all the
tools required for embedded development, nor is Momentics a single thing
as
that sentence implies.

So, for instance, it also includes cross-hosted tools for Solaris and
Windows targeting x86,
SH4, ARM, StrongArm, xScale, and PowerPC.

Wrong again. The SE and PE models of Momentics include these, the NC does
not,
so that makes it incorrect to make a blanket statement that "Momentics"
itself
includes them as well.


The SE version is the same as PE, except that it has no IDE, and a
limited
i set of BSP's.

Why does the IDE identify itself as "Momentics" when you start it then?
Does
that mean that the IDE is *ALSO* called Momentics? If it is, then why is
the
command to start it "eclipse"?

I also don't understand why paying customers that only opt for SE get
penalized
by not recieving all the examples? I can understand PE having additional
tools for the purpose of allowing customer to create a new BSP as opposed
to
a customer with SE only being able to use an existing BSP, but the
additional
examples just baffles me. That sounds more like a penalty for the "cheap"
customers.

Similarly, the NC version has some of these tools -- it can target both
x86
and ARM, and has an image available for the Compaq iPAQ.

So, they are all Momentics, and they are all different, so tell me, again
what is Momentics? This is still confusing and I *know* what Momentics
is,
but it took a lot of questions to get there. That is not what I call a
success in terms of marketing, aren't product names supposed to help
identify
a product, rather can obfuscate what the product actually is?

It's different from the old RTP.

It doesn't look like it.

NC looks like a stripped-down version of the old RTP
SE looks like the old RTP
PE looks like the old RTP with a new product thrown in called an IDE

Hope that helps.

Not at all. As igor points out, this is just another incarnation of the
confusion around names that occured with "RTP" when the QDN website listed
it in the list of QNX OSs... "QNX4, QNX Neutrino, and QNX RTP". That was
a mess, this isn't quite the same, but its a mess none-the-less.

Cheers,
Camz.

Guest

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Guest » Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:21 pm

Igor Kovalenko <Igor.Kovalenko@motorola.com> wrote:
Well said camz...

The name Momentics as of now does not really stand for anything except new
marketing campaign. And yes, NC is just stripped down version of 6.1, plus
bug fixes.
The 6.2 NC version is nothing more than "fixing" the mistake that was made
in 6.1 when someone at QSSL decided to include multi-platform support. I
was quite shocked when the 6.1 ISO included ARM, MIPS, SH, etc... That
never should have happened, there was no real reason to do it. 6.2 corrects
it, but it's also a bit of an admission that it never should have been in
6.1 in the first place. Problem is that you are now taking away something
that people had before, and there's bound to be some negative reaction to
that (even if they weren't using what was taken away, it's the principle).
The list of parts stripped down also looks like somebody was
playing darts to pick them... I can understand exclusion of mkifs and
related tools. But why SNMP, bootpd and other daemons, which originate from
open source anyway? Then why fs-nfs2 is in NC but fs-nfs3 is only in SE?
They are just different versions of NFS protocol. Beats me...
Yes, I agree. Some things were pulled that made sense in terms of what a
hobbyist/enthusiast would need to do with the OS vs. what a commercial
customer would need to do. Others were completely political. When you get
into the delta between SE and PE, it's all political as far as I can see.

IMHO, there should only have been Non-Commercial (NC) and Commercial versions
with the IDE as a seperate product. I think that by having two commerical
versions there is pressure to "differentiate" beyond just the IDE, and many
of those things become quite arbitrary. The end result is that there are
things that the customer that buys SE appears to be "penalized" for not having
spent the extra funds on PE. That's not good marketing, IMHO, to make your
customer feel like they are being punished for not having a "big enough"
budget or not being a "big enough" customer.
There is another difference between SE and PE, aside from the IDE. It that
full C++ support is only in PE. I am not sure what level of C++ support is
present in SE, never tried.
Actually they did fix C++ support in all the versions.
I think NC ships with working gcc bindings (which is new), SE ships with
dinkum C++ bindings/libs, and PE ships with dinkum and some "extended"
version of the dinkum libs (SE and PE also ship with the gcc stuff as well
meaning that you have 1, 2, and 3 libs to choose from respectively in NC,
SE, and PE).

I think SAT is only included in PE.

The question has been asked by many as well, why wasn't a version of eclipse
included in NC, and SE, but without the actual QNX plugins? Seems a bit of
a chore to make people download it from www.eclipse.org, compile it, and
then figure out how to install it.

Cheers,
Camz.

Guest

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Guest » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:24 am

Rennie Allen <rallen@csical.com> wrote:
that (even if they weren't using what was taken away, it's the principle).

What principle is that ? My neighbor occasionally gives me some oranges
off of his tree. I greatly appreciate his generosity, but I don't
expect to receive oranges every time his tree bears (that would be
downright rude).
I never said that those people that would object had any right to object, now
did I? I never said anything about them being polite either.

The fruit analogy isn't perfect, since you never have upgrades to the original
orange. That is where this differs, and where the "principle of the thing"
comes into play. Upgrades that remove functionality aren't really upgrades,
they are downgrades, and who willingly downgrades something?

You need to remember that the NC version is a marketing / promotional tool,
and once you have made something available, it only looks bad when you take
that thing back. How long the sentiment of being teased/ripped off will, of
course be directly proportional to the things that truely were upgraded and
their relative value to the typical NC user in comparison to those that were
removed.

Alas, this is a different topic than the original of the new confusion with
the Momentics name, which I would prefer not to get distracted from. If you
like we can start a new thread and beat this other thing to death in there
if you'd like :)

Cheers,
Camz.

Pete Eddy

Re: What's going on at QNX?

Post by Pete Eddy » Wed Jun 12, 2002 12:54 pm

I understand that it may be a pain for the hobbiest, but QNX was never a
Linux flower child type of OS.
I had previously used QNX 4 in steel mill industrial type applications doing
data collection on a one millisecond
basis. In those days you paid for every licence you put on a customer's
system. The licenses we bought
didn't get us a GUI, TCPIP, or any example code. However, the OS perform
task that would have been a
nightmare on a Microsoft platform, and Linux wasn't stable yet. The other
"embedded OSes" didn't give you much
more than a library that you linked to your code!

One thing to keep in mind when complaining about what your not getting
for free is that if QNX doesn't
make any money they won't be making any OS's free or otherwise for you to
complain about.

Now on the other hand they do need to be careful with the public
licensed code, if you use it you MUST
,under the terms of the license, provide source code or source code for any
modifications based upon it.
For an example of a commercial product see the TIVO, you can download the
linux source for that just not the
application code.

And they do need aggressive marketing to keep afloat in a world being
overrun by Microsoft. I think
making RTP avaliable for free at all is a great move. It's hard to convince
someone to buy a $8000 license
for a relatively unknown OS on a completely NEW redesign without showing
them something. (This isn't
QNX 4 by a long shot.)

Pete Eddy

<camz@passageway.com> wrote in message news:ae6ieb$ah1$1@inn.qnx.com...
Rennie Allen <rallen@csical.com> wrote:
that (even if they weren't using what was taken away, it's the
principle).

What principle is that ? My neighbor occasionally gives me some oranges
off of his tree. I greatly appreciate his generosity, but I don't
expect to receive oranges every time his tree bears (that would be
downright rude).

I never said that those people that would object had any right to object,
now
did I? I never said anything about them being polite either.

The fruit analogy isn't perfect, since you never have upgrades to the
original
orange. That is where this differs, and where the "principle of the
thing"
comes into play. Upgrades that remove functionality aren't really
upgrades,
they are downgrades, and who willingly downgrades something?

You need to remember that the NC version is a marketing / promotional
tool,
and once you have made something available, it only looks bad when you
take
that thing back. How long the sentiment of being teased/ripped off will,
of
course be directly proportional to the things that truely were upgraded
and
their relative value to the typical NC user in comparison to those that
were
removed.

Alas, this is a different topic than the original of the new confusion
with
the Momentics name, which I would prefer not to get distracted from. If
you
like we can start a new thread and beat this other thing to death in there
if you'd like :)

Cheers,
Camz.

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