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Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

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Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:41 pm

Dear all,
i'm newbie in QNX OS, i wanna know more about QNX.
I have problem, i have a machine that used a QNX OS (maybe QNX ver 2.11). I tried to clone QNX using Clonezilla (Linux Based), but after i cloned, my master harddisk and my clone harddisk didnt work. Icant bootingand in my monitor displayed : QNX Bootloader
Boot to Partition 1
and never display anything again.

My PC : Compaq 307G series, Intel486
Harddisk 1,2GB


Can u help me, its very useful for me. My e-mail is: warta@trst.co.id

thanks all
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RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:42 pm

It seems highly unlikely that Clonezilla would change the original in such a way that it no longer works. Has anything else changed? Is the original hard drive installed in another machine? Is it connected to the master controller. This would make a big difference with QNX 2.

Cloning a QNX 2 disk by just a sector to sector copy has a lot of potential problems. The first has to do with whether the geometry of the disks are identical.

If something was changed on the original disk, then you will need a boot floppy to get anywhere.
Before we go to far down this road however, what is that you need a QNX 2 system for?

BTW, as QNX 2 systems go, 2.11 is ancient. It was followed by 2.12, 2.13, 2.14. 2.15A-G 2.20 and 2.21. So you are treading on scary ground.
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RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:42 am

My QNX used to be communicated with my PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) Simatic S5 via com port. I've browse in google but i didn't found a good reference for downloading QNX 2.11,2.12, and etc. Where can i get a QNX 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, or etc? It's free or i've to pay for download QNX 2.12 etc?

Actually my goal is i wanna upgrade my 486 computer to new computer generation like Pentium 4 or AMD. Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.

Now, i've downloaded QNX 6 RTOS, but i can't mount my qnx 2.11 filesystem. and i've downloaded qnx2fsys too. Am i wrong?

Maybe i'm a very newbie in QNX. But i think QNX is a very good system that i have to be learn.

thank's a lot for your help. I'm sorry if my english is very bad, because i'm from indonesia and still learn english. I hope you understand about it.

thanks.
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:47 am

warta wrote:My QNX used to be communicated with my PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) Simatic S5 via com port. I've browse in google but i didn't found a good reference for downloading QNX 2.11,2.12, and etc. Where can i get a QNX 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, or etc? It's free or i've to pay for download QNX 2.12 etc?

You would have to talk with QNX about an upgrade. You can start looking at www.qnx.com. The only version that they might sell to you is 2.20. You may have noticed that the date on that system doesn't go beyond 1997. I don't know QNX's policy is on such an old system, but I suspect that it is available. Don't expect any support, and there are few if any tech people who know much about it.

Actually my goal is i wanna upgrade my 486 computer to new computer generation like Pentium 4 or AMD. Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.


You will have trouble running it on anything faster than a 486, although I was able to load it on a 333Mhz PII once by turning off the cache to load via floppy, and then turning it back on.

Now, i've downloaded QNX 6 RTOS, but i can't mount my qnx 2.11 filesystem. and i've downloaded qnx2fsys too. Am i wrong?


You are not wrong. qnx2fsys was a read only file system for QNX 4.
Before there was Qnx2fsys I wrote a utility for QNX 4 that could read files off of a QNX 2 partition. If I can find it around, it would be trivial to port it, but then it would only allow you to read. Is that what you need?
Another more direct method would be to copy your files to a DOS partition, which QNX 2 can write and QNX 6 can read.

Maybe i'm a very newbie in QNX. But i think QNX is a very good system that i have to be learn.


QNX 2 was an excellent system in its day, and QNX 4 and QNX 6 are each significantly better than their predecessor. There are a few problems that limit using QNX 2 today.
1) No support, that especially means for new hardware
eg. No USB, No SATA, No CD-ROM, No SCSI support past the AHA1540, the list goes on.
2) Limited 16 bit memory model.
3) Limited disk and file size support

thank's a lot for your help. I'm sorry if my english is very bad, because i'm from indonesia and still learn english. I hope you understand about it.
thanks.


Your english is fine. I'm curious as to how a QNX 2 PLC system got to Indonesia. Is it controlling some kind of manufactering automation?
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:09 am

maschoen wrote:
warta wrote:My QNX used to be communicated with my PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) Simatic S5 via com port. I've browse in google but i didn't found a good reference for downloading QNX 2.11,2.12, and etc. Where can i get a QNX 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, or etc? It's free or i've to pay for download QNX 2.12 etc?

You would have to talk with QNX about an upgrade. You can start looking at www.qnx.com. The only version that they might sell to you is 2.20. You may have noticed that the date on that system doesn't go beyond 1997. I don't know QNX's policy is on such an old system, but I suspect that it is available. Don't expect any support, and there are few if any tech people who know much about it.

Actually my goal is i wanna upgrade my 486 computer to new computer generation like Pentium 4 or AMD. Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.


You will have trouble running it on anything faster than a 486, although I was able to load it on a 333Mhz PII once by turning off the cache to load via floppy, and then turning it back on.

Now, i've downloaded QNX 6 RTOS, but i can't mount my qnx 2.11 filesystem. and i've downloaded qnx2fsys too. Am i wrong?

You are not wrong. qnx2fsys was a read only file system for QNX 4.
Before there was Qnx2fsys I wrote a utility for QNX 4 that could read files off of a QNX 2 partition. If I can find it around, it would be trivial to port it, but then it would only allow you to read. Is that what you need?
Another more direct method would be to copy your files to a DOS partition, which QNX 2 can write and QNX 6 can read.


I need more explanation about accessing qnx2 file system. What procedure that i've to be done? As far as i can't do anything in my qnx2. After booting my qnx display GUI project directly. I cannot enter any command, except command that availabled by that project.

Maybe i'm a very newbie in QNX. But i think QNX is a very good system that i have to be learn.


QNX 2 was an excellent system in its day, and QNX 4 and QNX 6 are each significantly better than their predecessor. There are a few problems that limit using QNX 2 today.
1) No support, that especially means for new hardware
eg. No USB, No SATA, No CD-ROM, No SCSI support past the AHA1540, the list goes on.
2) Limited 16 bit memory model.
3) Limited disk and file size support


thank's a lot for your help. I'm sorry if my english is very bad, because i'm from indonesia and still learn english. I hope you understand about it.
thanks.

Your english is fine. I'm curious as to how a QNX 2 PLC system got to Indonesia. Is it controlling some kind of manufactering automation?


Yes, my QNX used to control my manufacturing machine. QNX control many peripheral, like speed sensors, positioning sensor, and other peripheral. Maybe my QNX like a HMI (Human Machine Interface). In a siemens automation like WinCC (Windows Control Center). I will send you a picture for my QNX 2 GUI project by email.
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:59 am

Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.


A newer version of QNX 2 will probably not help. Unfortunately QNX 4 and QNX 6 are incompatible.

I need more explanation about accessing qnx2 file system. What procedure that i've to be done?


You need a QNX 2 boot diskette. Do you have one?

After booting my qnx display GUI project directly. I cannot enter any command, except command that availabled by that project.

It sounds like you can boot, but you may not be able to get to QNX because of the way the manufacturer set up the startup. With a boot floppy you could get inside, but I don't know how you would know what to do at that point.
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:57 am

maschoen wrote:
Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.


A newer version of QNX 2 will probably not help. Unfortunately QNX 4 and QNX 6 are incompatible.

I need more explanation about accessing qnx2 file system. What procedure that i've to be done?

You need a QNX 2 boot diskette. Do you have one?


I don't have a QNX boot diskette. Please give me one. Its very useful for me.


After booting my qnx display GUI project directly. I cannot enter any command, except command that availabled by that project.

It sounds like you can boot, but you may not be able to get to QNX because of the way the manufacturer set up the startup. With a boot floppy you could get inside, but I don't know how you would know what to do at that point.


Yes you're right. Actually i have two PC with qnx system that connected by ethernet (BNC type). One computer as a master, and second computer as a slave. Master computer controll all peripheral of machine and can display all peripheral feedback. And slave computer just display feedback from peripheral of machine. Master can do anything and slave just display, maybe its different.
I can boot on QNX, but in master computer. Slave computer is broken because i've clone the harddisk that i tell u.
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:28 pm

warta wrote:
maschoen wrote:
Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.


That is a big problem. Some equipment can be found on eBay here, but I think they may not want to send it to Indonesia. It is possible to run QNX 2 as a virtual machine on more advanced computers like Pentium IV's, but that would not help you of course.

I need more explanation about accessing qnx2 file system. What procedure that i've to be done?


If you boot off of a floppy, you must mount a driver. If the disk is an IDE drive, you might do the following:

$ mount disk 3 /drivers/disk.atc pa=qnx +v

This would use the AT (Cache) driver, and mount a QNX (Type 7) partition if it is found in the partition table. If this does not work, you can do things in two steps.

$ mount disk 3 /drivers/disk.atc +v

$ fdisk 3

Fdisk will show you what the partition table looks like. You could then mount a partition this way:

$ mount disk 3 d=3 pa=7 +v

There are other parameters in case you have two physical disks on the same controller.

There are other complications. QNX 2 never supported LBA mode, but I have a disk.ata driver that does. QNX 2 never (properly) supported 2 IDE controllers, but I have a way to do this also. QNX 2 did not support CD-ROM's, so don't even try. They use a different interface on top of the IDE interface called ATAPI which is not supported.

Once you think you have access to the disk you can check as follows:

$ ls 3:/

If this works, you might want to change the search order:

$ search 3 1

This will case searches on the path to start with disk 3, which will be much faster than on the floppy disk at 1. You can always enter a full QNX 2 path, such as:

$ 3:/cmds/ls 3:/user/qnx

You can also sometimes find the syntax of a command, eg. mount:

$ mount ?

Commands are usually found in the directory /cmds

It is possible to change the search path, but it rarely done. It is also possible to run commands from anywhere.

After booting my qnx display GUI project directly. I cannot enter any command, except command that availabled by that project.


Your system probably uses QNX Windows. I forget how to stop it, but someone here will remember. After booting the system runs a script either
/config/sysinit or /config/sysinit.0 or /config/sysinit.# where # is a node number.

Yes you're right. Actually i have two PC with qnx system that connected by ethernet (BNC type). One computer as a master, and second computer as a slave. Master computer controll all peripheral of machine and can display all peripheral feedback. And slave computer just display feedback from peripheral of machine. Master can do anything and slave just display, maybe its different.


The master/slave situation is just part of your application. The network cards are most likely Corman QNET Arcnet cards. You will know this because when booting you will see "node #" in the middle of the screen for a short time. If you press ESC when you see this, you can get into a BIOS menu. From there you could cause one system to boot off of the other if you know how.

I can boot on QNX, but in master computer. Slave computer is broken because i've clone the harddisk that i tell u.


You might be able to boot the slave computer over the network. To do this, you have to be running a program on the master to allow this. Try hitting ESC when you see "node #" on the slave.
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RE: Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby mario » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:55 pm

Some companies are still selling industrial 486 board.
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:35 am

maschoen wrote:
warta wrote:
maschoen wrote:Because a 486 computer is very ancient. I'm difficult to buy sparepart for 486 computer.

That is a big problem. Some equipment can be found on eBay here, but I think they may not want to send it to Indonesia. It is possible to run QNX 2 as a virtual machine on more advanced computers like Pentium IV's, but that would not help you of course.9/quote]

Maybe you 're right. Many electronic shopping sites like ebay, block our address. We can not buy anything from there. Because maybe in here many cyber crime. But it's not almost of indonesian people. Just a some people that wanna satisfied his/her desire.

Talking about virtual machine, is it like a vmware server or virtual box, right?



I need more explanation about accessing qnx2 file system. What procedure that i've to be done?

If you boot off of a floppy, you must mount a driver. If the disk is an IDE drive, you might do the following:

$ mount disk 3 /drivers/disk.atc pa=qnx +v

This would use the AT (Cache) driver, and mount a QNX (Type 7) partition if it is found in the partition table. If this does not work, you can do things in two steps.

$ mount disk 3 /drivers/disk.atc +v

$ fdisk 3

Fdisk will show you what the partition table looks like. You could then mount a partition this way:

$ mount disk 3 d=3 pa=7 +v

There are other parameters in case you have two physical disks on the same controller.

There are other complications. QNX 2 never supported LBA mode, but I have a disk.ata driver that does. QNX 2 never (properly) supported 2 IDE controllers, but I have a way to do this also. QNX 2 did not support CD-ROM's, so don't even try. They use a different interface on top of the IDE interface called ATAPI which is not supported.

Once you think you have access to the disk you can check as follows:

$ ls 3:/

If this works, you might want to change the search order:

$ search 3 1

This will case searches on the path to start with disk 3, which will be much faster than on the floppy disk at 1. You can always enter a full QNX 2 path, such as:

$ 3:/cmds/ls 3:/user/qnx

You can also sometimes find the syntax of a command, eg. mount:

$ mount ?

Commands are usually found in the directory /cmds

It is possible to change the search path, but it rarely done. It is also possible to run commands from anywhere.


Ok, i'll try. Thanks a lot. Its good reference.

After booting my qnx display GUI project directly. I cannot enter any command, except command that availabled by that project.


Your system probably uses QNX Windows. I forget how to stop it, but someone here will remember. After booting the system runs a script either
/config/sysinit or /config/sysinit.0 or /config/sysinit.# where # is a node number.


Yes you're right. Actually i have two PC with qnx system that connected by ethernet (BNC type). One computer as a master, and second computer as a slave. Master computer controll all peripheral of machine and can display all peripheral feedback. And slave computer just display feedback from peripheral of machine. Master can do anything and slave just display, maybe its different.

The master/slave situation is just part of your application. The network cards are most likely Corman QNET Arcnet cards. You will know this because when booting you will see "node #" in the middle of the screen for a short time. If you press ESC when you see this, you can get into a BIOS menu. From there you could cause one system to boot off of the other if you know how.


yes, i see node # after booting. Compaq computer 305G never allow user to entering their setup. After i see node # and press ESC, i can't get BIOS menu. Just display blank...

I can boot on QNX, but in master computer. Slave computer is broken because i've clone the harddisk that i tell u.


You might be able to boot the slave computer over the network. To do this, you have to be running a program on the master to allow this. Try hitting ESC when you see "node #" on the slave.
warta
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:53 am

Maybe you 're right. Many electronic shopping sites like ebay, block our address. We can not buy anything from there. Because maybe in here many cyber crime. But it's not almost of indonesian people. Just a some people that wanna satisfied his/her desire.


I didn't know you were blocked. I was thinking that the sellers might not want to ship to Indonesia.

Talking about virtual machine, is it like a vmware server or virtual box, right?


Yes. I've had QNX 2 working on, 1) VMware for the PC. 2) VMware for the iMac (Fusion). 3) Microsoft's virtual machine. 4) QEMU on the Mac.

The hardware support is limited. The only way I've been able to get files off and on the virtual machine is using a floppy, or a parallel port Zip drive.

yes, i see node # after booting. Compaq computer 305G never allow user to entering their setup. After i see node # and press ESC, i can't get BIOS menu. Just display blank...


That is very odd. I can't explain that. It is possible that there is some mode for the Corman card to protect against you getting in, but that would seem mean for the manufacturer to set it that way. I'll see what I can learn on my QNX 2 systems. I have three that still work.
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Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:39 am

maschoen wrote:

Talking about virtual machine, is it like a vmware server or virtual box, right?


Yes. I've had QNX 2 working on, 1) VMware for the PC. 2) VMware for the iMac (Fusion). 3) Microsoft's virtual machine. 4) QEMU on the Mac.

The hardware support is limited. The only way I've been able to get files off and on the virtual machine is using a floppy, or a parallel port Zip drive.


yes, i see node # after booting. Compaq computer 305G never allow user to entering their setup. After i see node # and press ESC, i can't get BIOS menu. Just display blank...

That is very odd. I can't explain that. It is possible that there is some mode for the Corman card to protect against you getting in, but that would seem mean for the manufacturer to set it that way. I'll see what I can learn on my QNX 2 systems. I have three that still work.


Oke, i will try again, maybe i'm wrong.
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RE: Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:23 pm

I've had a chance to play with the network card bios. Normally you press ESC once and you get a small menu, and then you can press it again to get a larger menu. I think I recall that Corman had a utility that would make these menus unavailable, so that might explain your problem. Clearly it was short sited of anyone to did this.
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RE: Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby warta » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:48 am

I can entering boot menu by hitting ESC when display node#. Maybe its my stupid mistake, because my keyboard had a problem in ESC key. I change the keyboard, and everithing its okey. According to your advice.

But i still want to entering the system.

thanks
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RE: Re: RE: Problem cannot enter to my qnx2

Postby maschoen » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:33 am

If you can get into the 1st menu, there is an option to boot over the network. This will only work if the boot file and boot node number is set correctly in the 2nd menu , and if the program "netboot" is running on the other machine.
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