Some pluses and minuses

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Bill Caroselli

Some pluses and minuses

Post by Bill Caroselli » Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:49 pm

First, since I've been using tin I must say that I've noticed
inn.qnx.com is _fast_! There is virtually no noticible latency
between posting an article and seeing it available.

Kudos to whomever.

How are you hosting inn.qnx.com?


Now on the downside. I just sent an e-mail to sales@qnx.com requesting
pricing on a personal use Momentics SE. They sent me back an e-mail
wanting to know where I was from.

I *do* understand that any company is willing to negotiate special
prices for favored customers. But I'm requesting to buy ONE OF for
personal use. I'll pay list price (whatever that is).

QSSL has played games with their pricing for years. Why can't they just
say "It costs this much." I mean really guys, grow up!

--
Bill Caroselli -- Q-TPS Consulting
1-(626) 824-7983
qtps@earthlink.net

Alex Cellarius

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Alex Cellarius » Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:22 pm

On 30 Jan 2003 18:49:21 GMT, Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote:
First, since I've been using tin I must say that I've noticed
inn.qnx.com is _fast_! There is virtually no noticible latency
between posting an article and seeing it available.

Kudos to whomever.

How are you hosting inn.qnx.com?


Now on the downside. I just sent an e-mail to sales@qnx.com requesting
pricing on a personal use Momentics SE. They sent me back an e-mail
wanting to know where I was from.
"From" as in what company? Or what part of the US? or what
other part of the world.
They probably want you to deal with the local channel..
Which is not a bad thing, IMO, speaking as one cog in
the channel wheel...

Bill Caroselli

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Bill Caroselli » Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:18 pm

Alex Cellarius <acellarius@systems104.co.za> wrote:
On 30 Jan 2003 18:49:21 GMT, Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote:

Now on the downside. I just sent an e-mail to sales@qnx.com requesting
pricing on a personal use Momentics SE. They sent me back an e-mail
wanting to know where I was from.

"From" as in what company? Or what part of the US? or what
other part of the world.
They probably want you to deal with the local channel..
Which is not a bad thing, IMO, speaking as one cog in
the channel wheel...
Never mind. I got my answer via e-mail.

QSSL doesn't want to sell software to individuals.

Debbie Kane

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Debbie Kane » Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:29 pm

The question of 'where' you are from is a geographic question.
Our sales force is distributed geographically, so they were asking in order
to get you talking with the correct rep for that territory.

We host inn.qnx.com, I will pass on your kudos :-)

deb

"Bill Caroselli" <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b1bs3h$jvt$6@inn.qnx.com...
First, since I've been using tin I must say that I've noticed
inn.qnx.com is _fast_! There is virtually no noticible latency
between posting an article and seeing it available.

Kudos to whomever.

How are you hosting inn.qnx.com?


Now on the downside. I just sent an e-mail to sales@qnx.com requesting
pricing on a personal use Momentics SE. They sent me back an e-mail
wanting to know where I was from.

I *do* understand that any company is willing to negotiate special
prices for favored customers. But I'm requesting to buy ONE OF for
personal use. I'll pay list price (whatever that is).

QSSL has played games with their pricing for years. Why can't they just
say "It costs this much." I mean really guys, grow up!

--
Bill Caroselli -- Q-TPS Consulting
1-(626) 824-7983
qtps@earthlink.net

Adam Mallory

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Adam Mallory » Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:24 pm

Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b1c4r6$4e5$1@inn.qnx.com...
Never mind. I got my answer via e-mail.

QSSL doesn't want to sell software to individuals.
That seems strange - I've emailed sales and we'll see what the deal is. I
find it hard to believe we won't sell to a potential customer.

-Adam

Bill Caroselli

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Bill Caroselli » Thu Jan 30, 2003 10:52 pm

Adam Mallory <amallory@qnx.com> wrote:
Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b1c4r6$4e5$1@inn.qnx.com...

Never mind. I got my answer via e-mail.

QSSL doesn't want to sell software to individuals.

That seems strange - I've emailed sales and we'll see what the deal is. I
find it hard to believe we won't sell to a potential customer.
It's just that the price is *totally* unreasonable for an individual.

Especially since all I really want is the mkifs utility.

Alain Bonnefoy

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Alain Bonnefoy » Fri Jan 31, 2003 2:09 pm

Don't know how is the law in your country but it could be comprehensible.
If you just want qrtp for your self, download the non commercial iso file.
If you want to make business with it, your are not an individual but a
company name. Maybe it's an explanatin.

regards,
Alain.

Bill Caroselli a écrit:
Alex Cellarius <acellarius@systems104.co.za> wrote:


On 30 Jan 2003 18:49:21 GMT, Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote:


Now on the downside. I just sent an e-mail to sales@qnx.com requesting
pricing on a personal use Momentics SE. They sent me back an e-mail
wanting to know where I was from.





"From" as in what company? Or what part of the US? or what
other part of the world.
They probably want you to deal with the local channel..
Which is not a bad thing, IMO, speaking as one cog in
the channel wheel...



Never mind. I got my answer via e-mail.

QSSL doesn't want to sell software to individuals.

Armin Steinhoff

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Armin Steinhoff » Fri Jan 31, 2003 3:42 pm

Bill Caroselli wrote:
Alex Cellarius <acellarius@systems104.co.za> wrote:

On 30 Jan 2003 18:49:21 GMT, Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote:

Now on the downside. I just sent an e-mail to sales@qnx.com requesting
pricing on a personal use Momentics SE. They sent me back an e-mail
wanting to know where I was from.


"From" as in what company? Or what part of the US? or what
other part of the world.
They probably want you to deal with the local channel..
Which is not a bad thing, IMO, speaking as one cog in
the channel wheel...


Never mind. I got my answer via e-mail.

QSSL doesn't want to sell software to individuals.
Hmm ... and when an individual company will buy a plain QNX run-time
for a soft PLC application ... they have to answer a lot of annoying
questions.

Looks like that anyone has to feel guilty and has to justify
why they want to buy QNX ??

QSSL is loosing a lot of customers and revenues because of
this behavior ....

Armin

Rennie Allen

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Rennie Allen » Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:13 pm

Bill Caroselli wrote:
That seems strange - I've emailed sales and we'll see what the deal is. I
find it hard to believe we won't sell to a potential customer.


It's just that the price is *totally* unreasonable for an individual.

Especially since all I really want is the mkifs utility.
The problem is that there is no "professional eduction program". There should
be a recognition that there are working professionals such as Bill that want to
self educate themselves about QSSLs product. In the wider world of software
tools this is usually accomplished by getting a cracked version of the software,
or pirating a copy from the employer.

Personally, I think that it would be better to have an official channel for
doing this; although I do recognize that it actually costs a company more to
have an official channel of this sort, than to simply ignore the piracy of this
type, but I do think that it is good PR that actually pays off in the long run.

Eric Johnson

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Eric Johnson » Fri Jan 31, 2003 10:56 pm

"Bill Caroselli" <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b1cac9$98l$1@inn.qnx.com...
Adam Mallory <amallory@qnx.com> wrote:
....
That seems strange - I've emailed sales and we'll see what the deal is.
I
find it hard to believe we won't sell to a potential customer.

It's just that the price is *totally* unreasonable for an individual.


Especially since all I really want is the mkifs utility.
Bill, I'm sorry that you feel our pricing is out of reach for your purposes.

Obviously you are aware of QNX Momentics NC, which you can use for personal
experimentation. As I know you are also aware, the NC version is missing
some key features (such as mkifs) that would be necessary for 'real'
embedded development. We found that commercial developers were using the
noncommercial version for commercial development, so we elected to draw a
line and remove functionality such that you could still use the NC version
to develop applications, but would be challenged to do commercial embedded
work. We tried to do this in a way that would still allow the bulk of
enthusiasts to continue their experimentation, and I believe we succeeded.
On a practical note, you may still be able to find copies of the
pre-Momentics QNX RTP 6.1 (on the internet, or perhaps you have a copy
already). While this is no longer up to date with our latest advances and
its use is strictly noncommercial, it does include the mkifs utility.

You started this thread in response to our sales group emailing you asking
which geographical area you are in, and accused us of playing games with our
pricing.

Our internal sales teams and distribution partners are arranged
geographically. Sales inquiries from a region are forwarded to the
appropriate channel, and that is why we needed to know where you were
inquiring from.

We do not play games with our pricing. Our North American pricing for QNX
Momentics products was published in a press release in June of last year and
has not changed since. This pricing, which does not include support, is:

QNX Momentics Professional Edition: US$8,695
QNX Momentics Standard Edition: US$4,295

If feel you are a special case and it would be to our mutual benefit to give
you a break on the price, it would probably be a lot more effective to have
a friendly discussion with your sales rep than to post angry messages in the
advocacy forum. I personally reviewed the email message our sales rep rep
sent you. It was friendly, polite, gave you the pricing info you requested,
and ended in an invitation to contact the rep if you needed more
information. It certainly did not imply anywhere that we are not interested
in selling to individuals.

- Eric

Miguel Simon

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Miguel Simon » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:24 am

Hi...

Agree.

Miguel.


Rennie Allen wrote:
The problem is that there is no "professional eduction program". There
should be a recognition that there are working professionals such as
Bill that want to self educate themselves about QSSLs product. In the
wider world of software tools this is usually accomplished by getting a
cracked version of the software, or pirating a copy from the employer.

Personally, I think that it would be better to have an official channel
for doing this; although I do recognize that it actually costs a company
more to have an official channel of this sort, than to simply ignore the
piracy of this type, but I do think that it is good PR that actually
pays off in the long run.

Bill Caroselli

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Bill Caroselli » Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:16 pm

Eric Johnson <eric@qnx.com> wrote:
If feel you are a special case and it would be to our mutual benefit to give
you a break on the price, it would probably be a lot more effective to have
a friendly discussion with your sales rep than to post angry messages in the
advocacy forum. I personally reviewed the email message our sales rep rep
sent you. It was friendly, polite, gave you the pricing info you requested,
and ended in an invitation to contact the rep if you needed more
information. It certainly did not imply anywhere that we are not interested
in selling to individuals.
I don't feel I'm a special case. I'm Joe Blough Nobody who wants to
stick a UNIXy OS on my desk. I can try RTP-NC. But it is missing
several features that I want to try (mkifs, ipv6, ip-filter). So I can
agree to pay a reasonable fee for all the bells and whistles.

Oh well. Red Hat ain't that expensive.

Bill Caroselli

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Bill Caroselli » Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:36 pm

Xiaodan Tang <xtang@qnx.com> wrote:

IPFilter (it is not a offical QSSL product though) will be in the 6.2.1 3rd
party
CD, and working with 6.2.1 NC...
As I recall, I never really wanted to play with ipv6
but that IPfilter required ipv6 to work.

Has that dependancy been removed?

Xiaodan Tang

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Xiaodan Tang » Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:38 pm

Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b1mbl1$fc4$1@inn.qnx.com...
Eric Johnson <eric@qnx.com> wrote:

If feel you are a special case and it would be to our mutual benefit to
give
you a break on the price, it would probably be a lot more effective to
have
a friendly discussion with your sales rep than to post angry messages in
the
advocacy forum. I personally reviewed the email message our sales rep
rep
sent you. It was friendly, polite, gave you the pricing info you
requested,
and ended in an invitation to contact the rep if you needed more
information. It certainly did not imply anywhere that we are not
interested
in selling to individuals.

I don't feel I'm a special case. I'm Joe Blough Nobody who wants to
stick a UNIXy OS on my desk. I can try RTP-NC. But it is missing
several features that I want to try (mkifs, ipv6, ip-filter). So I can
agree to pay a reasonable fee for all the bells and whistles.
FYI,

IPFilter (it is not a offical QSSL product though) will be in the 6.2.1 3rd
party
CD, and working with 6.2.1 NC...

-xtang

Xiaodan Tang

Re: Some pluses and minuses

Post by Xiaodan Tang » Mon Feb 03, 2003 7:25 pm

Bill Caroselli <qtps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b1mcr2$fc4$3@inn.qnx.com...
Xiaodan Tang <xtang@qnx.com> wrote:


IPFilter (it is not a offical QSSL product though) will be in the 6.2.1
3rd
party
CD, and working with 6.2.1 NC...

As I recall, I never really wanted to play with ipv6
but that IPfilter required ipv6 to work.

Has that dependancy been removed?
Un... Yes.

Well, the story is like this.

There is a "specific feature" in stack that IPFilter need to hook it up to
look the
packets. With 6.2.0, the feature is "accidently" removed from the
npm-tcpip-v4.so,
resulting that IPFilter can only works with npm-tcpip-v6.so.

This has been resolved so in 6.2.1, both npm-tcpip-v4.so and npm-tcpip-v6.so
will have that "specific feature", and IPFilter package will have two
binaries
ipfilter-v4.so and ipfilter-v6.so which works with different stack. (the
install
script in IPFilter will try to detect which stack you are running and set
the
proper link)

So it really have nothing to do with IPv6 (well, the ipfilter-v6.so would
understand
IPv6 packets of cause), but something in the npm-tcpip-v6.so stack.

Hope this could clear the things out :)

-xtang

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